The LDA Podcast: An Exploration of Evidence-Informed Approaches to Learning and Development

AI and L&D Insights: Troughs, Truths, and Tech Turbulence: Navigating AI’s Messy Middle

With Special Guest, Chris Pedder
Think AI is all about buzzwords and breakthrough moments? Think again. Markus and Chris navigate the gritty reality of AI’s ‘messy middle’—the point where big ideas meet even bigger challenges. Grab your headset and get ready for an unexpected dive into the future of tech, where innovation truly happens after the hype fades. From ethical dilemmas to economic realities, this episode will change how you see AI’s role in our world.
Links and Connections from the Episode
Chris Pedder - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-jb-pedder/
Obrizum - https://obrizum.com/
Ray Kurzweil - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzweil
Perplexity - https://www.perplexity.ai/
you.com - https://you.com/
Corey Doctorow on Enshittification - https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys
Nick Bostrum on Paperclips - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9781118922590.ch23
IBM article on AI Alignment - https://research.ibm.com/blog/what-is-alignment-ai
Anil Seth on Consciousness and AI - https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/tz6an

SPECIAL: The "What the Heck is AI?" Episode with Lori Niles-Hofmann and Stella Lee

We take a break from our regularly featured programming. The following is the audio from a special, informal discussion about AI that LDA recently produced for our community. We thought it lent itself nicely to the podcast, as well.
In this special discussion, Lori Niles-Hofmann and Stella Lee school Matt on the basic ins and outs of AI. We talk about what AI is. We talk about the different types of AI. Matt asks whether the world of Terminator is soon coming to pass! Stella and Lori correct that notion.
We dive into the ethical issues that using AI impact both short-, and long-term. We delve into how information gets curated on different AI platforms. We explore the implications in general, as well as for L&D, when using AI. Specifically we look at the practical implications. Can we use AI to help us solve some of those wicked problems we face?
Lori and Stella share advice on how to engage with vendors pushing their AI offerings. Or, at least some questions one might ask when others are authorized to buy, but you have to use it.
Speaking of practical… and speaking of ethics… when is it ok to use AI when constructing designs, writing, or researching? What are hallucinations? When does the AI misunderstand us? How do we misunderstand what we get from it?
While many are way more educated and knowledgeable about AI than Matt. Many others are still confused about what it all means and what it does— but are frankly, slightly… mildly… embarrassed to ask.
Ok… Matt admits, he had no clue what generative AI referred to instead of “regular” AI. But he does now, as a result of Stella and Lori's educational explanations.
The bottom line is this special program provides the highlights of AI basics as it pertains to L&D. We hope you enjoy!
_____________________________________________
More about Lori and Stella:
Lori Niles-Hofmann
Lori is a senior learning strategist with over 20 years’ of L&D experience. Specializing in large-scale digital learning transformation, Lori is passionate about helping companies navigate the ambiguity of change. After leading and completing numerous EdTech implementations, Lori has developed the data-based methodologies and frameworks that empower L&D teams to move from a business support function to strategic business driver. Lori is currently based in Toronto, Canada with one foot in Europe.
STELLA LEE
With over 20 years of experience in the e-learning and edtech industry, Stella is a director at Paradox Learning, a consulting firm that provides and evaluates innovative learning solutions across multiple devices, cultures, and platforms. She work with clients from various sectors, such as government, education, non-profit, and corporate, to help them achieve their learning and development goals with data-driven and technology-enabled approaches. As a consultant, startup advisor, writer, speaker, community organizer, educator, and researcher, she is passionate about sharing her insights and expertise on e-learning, edtech, AI, learning analytics, adaptive and personalized learning, and more.

AI and L&D Insights: AI Agents Unleashed: Chatbots that Do More Than Chat

Guest: Vince Han, CEO of Mobile Coach
 
Summary: In this episode of AI & L&D Insights, Markus Bernhardt dives into the world of proactive AI with Vince Han, the visionary behind Mobile Coach. Together, they explore the game-changing evolution from passive chatbots to AI agents that do more than just answer questions—they engage, assist, and even anticipate your needs.
Join us as we break down how AI agents are revolutionizing learning and development, from onboarding new hires to creating seamless, proactive user experiences. Vince shares how chatbots are moving beyond surface-level interactions to becoming indispensable virtual colleagues in your workflow. Whether you’re interested in L&D, AI innovation, or the future of work, this episode offers practical insights into how AI agents are reshaping the workplace—faster than you think.
 
REFERENCES
Vince's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincehan/ 
 
Mobile Coach Website: www.mobilecoach.com 
 
Eliza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

The "And the Award Goes to..." Episode

We are rejoined by Will Thalheimer to talk about one of his favorite topics, awards in the L&D industry. Should we have them? Should we give them out? How do we do it better… if at all?
We explore a pretty exhaustive list of the general issues with using and distributing awards among industry professionals by industry professional groups. Heck, we even find a few good points to support the tradition, as well.
Are these industry awards fair?
Are they judged effectively and fairly? 
What are, and should, be the criteria for winning an award? What rubric is used? Who designs the rubric? Are we even rewarding the “right” stuff (whatever that means)?
What about money? Application fees? And paying for the awards? Bias? Vendor relationships?
Heck, are these awards even manageable… doable in order to ensure claimed standards and fairness?
‎Is an evolving approach, perhaps to think about certification?  
Who judges the judges?
Will even hands out an award called the Neon Elephant Award, as he attempts to bypass many of the issues we discuss. You can learn more about it here: https://www.worklearning.com/2010/11/02/neon-elephant-award/. Does he succeed?
Yes— we know there are tons of awards out there, so we are speaking generically. But the questions of fairness and appropriate judgement still hold. 
Matt references NASAGA. The North American Simulation and Gaming Association. We also reference ISPI, the International Society for Performance Improvement.
Any conversation about awards within the context of L&D would, and should, lead to a conversation about program and practitioner evaluation. We, of couse, talk about Will’s Learning Transfer Evaluation Model (LTEM). You can learn more about that here: https://www.worklearning.com/ltem/.
Will brings up one of his passion ideas… that within L&D, we should have independent journalists investigating and report on how we do, what we do, and what we could do better. He originally talks it about it in the LDA Podcast, Episode 4.
And what about impact? Is impact the key? Or, are we missing the boat? What about the differences between learning and impact? How do we ensure that our learning engagement was actually the cause of the identified impact.
LDA had the wonderful, Alex Edmans, from the London Business School, on our MEET THE AUTHOR Series. The video is here: https://members.ldaccelerator.com/c/meet-the-author-space/meet-the-author-alex-edmans. We reference his new book, May Contain Lies. You can find the book and learn more about Alex, here: https://alexedmans.com/books/
Will’s new book is The CEO’s Guide to Training, eLearning, and Work. You can learn more and buy it here: https://www.ceosguide.net. 
You can learn more about Will here: https://www.worklearning.com/about/.

AI and L&D Insights: Learning in the Flow of Life: A Conversation with Katja Schipperheijn

Summary/Teaser:
In this episode of the AI and L&D Insights Podcast, Markus sits down with Katja Schipperheijn, a pioneer in learning ecosystems and recently named a 2024 Power Woman. Katja shares her journey from traditional sales training to spearheading innovative learning environments that prioritize social collaboration and AI-driven personalization. Discover how Katja’s concept of "Learning in the Flow of Life" challenges conventional educational models and why embracing a Learning Mindset is critical for both personal and organizational growth. Tune in to explore the future of learning, where technology and human curiosity meet.
Shownotes:
Book "The Learning Mindset": https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Mindset-Combining-Competencies-Technology/dp/1398617334/ref=sr_1_1
Book "Learning Ecosystems": https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Ecosystems-Innovative-Tech-driven-Strategies/dp/1398607401/ref=sr_1_2
Katja on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katjaschipperheijn/
Katja on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katjaschipperheijn/
The Learning Mindset: https://thelearningmindset.org/

The "Game Show" Episode

In this episode, Matt and Clark are joined by the great Karl Kapp. We dive into a favorite topic… using commercial games for learning.
Shameless plug… The Commercial Games Workshop with Karl Kapp and Matt on December 11-12, 2024 in Philadelphia.
We talk about how to utilize games and activities for team building and ensure they become both domain specific and transfer back to the workplace. We also distinguish between cooperative and competitive gaming experiences, as well as their respective pros and cons. We discuss tips, constraints, and applications for using games— specifically commercial games.
The game itself is never the goal… we talk about how to leverage the game to reach an instructional purpose. We talk about balancing fun and the objective. We talk about debriefing game play. Karl refers to war gaming. Learning is a system. A game is a system that is a part of that greater learning system.
Clark refers to Kurt Squire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Squire 
Game of Phones— Kris Rockwell: https://briandusablon.com/2011/07/01/a-game-of-phones/
Matt references Board Game Geek. https://boardgamegeek.com
Wil Wheaton's Tabletop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THjo1hjtz0g&list=PL7atuZxmT956cWFGxqSyRdn6GWhBxiAwE 
Games mentioned:
Civilization
Escape Rooms
Timeline
Forbidden Island
New York Times’ Flashback
Fluxx
Break the Safe
‎Monopoly
‎Oregon Trail
‎Lost Dutchman Goldmine (by Scott Simmerman)
‎Risk
‎Stratego
‎Ticket to Ride
‎Age of Empires
‎Pandemic
‎Barnga
‎War
‎Gin Rummy
‎Ninety-Nine
‎Cards Against Humanity 
‎Titan Quest
‎Firefly
‎‎Code Names
NYT Connections
‎Reigns
‎Candy Crush 
‎Plants vs. Zombies
‎Murder by Choice
‎JJ Abrams’ S.
Temple Run
‎The Dwarf King
‎Hanabi
‎‎Guillotine
‎Hearts
‎Pitch
‎Cassino
‎NYT Strands
A bit about Karl… He has over 27 years of experience as a professor of instructional technology and 15 years as the Director of the Institute for Interactive Technologies at Bloomsburg University— now Commonwealth University, He helps people understand the convergence of learning, technology, games and game-thinking through fun, laughter and insight. As the founder of the Learning and Development Mentor Academy, he provides seasoned L&D professionals with access to a library of on-demand, self-paced workshops, monthly live sessions, and a vibrant community of peers and experts. Karl also co-founded Enterprise Game Stack, a company that designs, develops and delivers online, digital card activities and games that keep participants focused, engaged, and collaborative, while reinforcing learning both in the moment and over time. 
You can find Karl on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlkapp/
Or on his website, https://karlkapp.com 

AI and L&D Insights: Navigating AI Adoption with Jon Fletcher

Summary:
In this episode of the AI and L&D Insights podcast, Markus Bernhardt hosts Jon Fletcher, an AI adoption specialist, to discuss the current landscape of AI integration in people and learning functions. They explore the recent slowdown in AI adoption, the challenges of balancing individual and organizational AI use, and the critical role of ethical and regulatory considerations, such as the EU AI Act. Jon emphasizes the need for clear AI strategies, proper training, and a holistic approach to redesigning workflows to support employees effectively. Join Markus and Jon for valuable insights on navigating the complexities of AI adoption in learning and development.
For more information:
Jon Fletcher www.linkedin.com/in/jnfJon Fletcher's website https://www.jonfletcher.ai
The EU AI Act https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20230601STO93804/eu-ai-act-first-regulation-on-artificial-intelligence
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobias-zwingmann/

The "How In the Skills Could You Say That?" Episode

We are delighted to have the great Koreen Pagano join the podcast for the furthering conversation on skills. We get Koreen’s perspective and definition of skills. 
Matt alludes to the earlier LDA Podcast, The “What the Skills” Episode with Paul Kirschner, as well as the research work he did with John Sweller and Richard Clark published in their article:
Kirschner, P.A., Sweller, J., & Clark, R.E. (2006). Why minimal guidance during instruction does not work: An analysis of the failure of constructivist discovery, problem-based, experiential, and inquiry-based teaching. Educational Psychologist. 41(2), 75-86.
In the episode, we dig into whether one can teach, and how one can teach, conflict resolution, critical thinking, and even tease the subject of teaching leadership.
The debate really gets playfully heated when they talk about critical thinking. Clark uses the famous phrase, “yes… and…” Matt references the great improv in business practitioner, Kat Koppett. Her first book, Training to Imagine is a great source to go into yes, anding… in more depth.
Matt references evolutionary skills and brings up the references from Sweller:
Sweller, J. (2016). Cognitive Load Theory: What We Learn and How We Learn. In M. Spector, B. Lockee, & M. Childress (Eds.), Learning, design, and technology (pp. 1–28). Springer. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-17727-4_50-1
And Geary
Geary, D. C. (2008). An evolutionarily informed education science. Educational Psychologist, 43(4), 179–195. https://doi.org/10.1080/00461520802392133
We discuss what it means to master skills, and develop automation. We also explore how to assess whether a person has a skill or the potential to develop a skill.
We debate transferability and whether skills— especially complex skills need be taught within a contextual domain. Matt argues yes. Koreen argues no. Clark argues “It depends.” They also debate whether, and how much, talent plays into skill development. Heck… is talent even a thing? The big argument centers around Carnegie Hall and playing golf! And of course, Anders Ericsson is a part of the conversation.
Ericsson, K. A., & Charness, N. (1994). Expert performance: Its structure and acquisition. American Psychologist, 49: 725–747.
Matt referenced the Human Development expert, Richard Lerner.
Koreen references the hostage negotiator, Chris Voss and his book, Never Split the Difference.
And we even debate how transferrable the skill of game design is!
And we talked about so much more!!!
Of course, we run out of time because we had so much fun chatting with Koreen… that we didn’t get to Best and Worst! Next time… and Koreen will be back!
More about Koreen:
Koreen Pagano, Chief Product Officer at Thrive Learning and founder of Isanno, is a globally recognized product executive with deep expertise in learning technologies, skills strategy, AI, analytics, and immersive technologies. Koreen has held product leadership roles at companies including Lynda.com, LinkedIn, D2L, Degreed, and Wiley. Koreen previously founded Tandem Learning in 2008, where she pioneered immersive learning through virtual worlds, games, and simulations. She has taught graduate courses at Harrisburg University and provided advisory and consulting services to a range of tech companies in the corporate learning, VR, and K12 education markets. Koreen is a seasoned international speaker, author of the book Immersive Learning and an upcoming book on organizational skills transformation due out in 2025.
You can find Koreen here:
https://isanno.com 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/koreenpagano/ 

AI and L&D Insights: From Simulations to Social Learning: AI in Action

Join Markus Bernhardt and Bjorn Billhardt as they explore how AI is reshaping leadership development. In this episode, discover the role of AI-driven simulations in creating dynamic learning experiences and why social interaction remains crucial. Explore the innovative 12-week MBA program designed for today’s leaders and learn how AI can elevate L&D from a support function to a strategic powerhouse. Don’t miss this engaging discussion on blending technology with human connection to transform professional growth.
Shownotes:
Bjorn Billhardt on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjornbillhardt/
The link to Abilitie, a Top 20 Leadership Development Company: http://www.abilitie.com
Link to the 12-Week MBA, a part-time, virtual MBA certificate course: http://www.12weekmba.com
The Voice AI demo Bjorn referenced:  https://fastvoiceagent.cerebrium.ai/
How Bjorn keeps up to date:
Ethan Mollick’s - One Useful Thing - https://www.oneusefulthing.org/
Wes Kao’s Newsletter - https://newsletter.weskao.com/
Matt Tower’s weekly roundup of happenings in the EdTech community: https://www.etch.club/p/etch-weekend-reading-52724

The "What's the Problem... Leadership?" Episode

We have the wonderful Nigel Paine back in the house for an exciting and banter-filled episode about leadership. It's a continuation of the previous Nigel show, The "Follow the Leader" Episode.
Nigel and Matt continue the conversation about the nuance of leadership-- what the heck is it practically as organizations struggle to get their arms around it.
A bulk of the discussion centers on the work of the wonderful historian and leadership expert, Keith Grint from the Säid Business School of the University of Oxford and also the University of Warwick, both in the UK. You can learn more about Keith here: https://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/about-us/people/keith-grint
And a wonderful primer on Keith's work is his short book, LEADERSHIP, A VERY SHORT INTRODUCTION. You can get it here: https://amzn.to/4elBIeg
They leverage his problem-based model of leadership taking Rittel and Webber's Wicked and Tame problems (and adding Critical Problems) as a basis for prescribing a leadership, management, or command response. 
Rittel and Webber. Here is the reference to their work:
Rittel, H.W.J. and Webber, M.M.. (1973) Dilemmas in a General Theory of Planning. Policy Sciences. 4, pp. 155-169.
The classicJames MacGregor Burns book introducing the concept of Transformational Leadership is: 
Burns, J. M. (1978). Leadership (1st ed.). New York: Harper & Row.
Barbara Kellermen's book is:
Kellerman, B. (2012). The end of leadership (1st ed.). New York: Harper Business, An Imprint of Harper Collins Publishers.
Jeffrey Pfeffer wrote a wonder book called LEADERSHIP BS. The reference is: 
Pfeffer, J. (2015). Leadership BS : fixing workplaces and careers one truth at a time (First edition. ed.). New York, NY: Harper Business, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers.
We also reference Ronald Riggio:
Riggio, R. E. (Ed.) (2018). What’s Wrong with Leadership? New York: Routledge.
Matt incorrectly says Charles Wheelen's name. It is Wheelen and his book is called Naked Economics.
We allude to systems-based leadership. You can learn more about it here:
Raelin, J. A. (2016). Imagine There Are No Leaders: Reframing Leader‐ ship as Collaborative Agency. Leadership & Organization Development Journal, 12(2), 131-158.
In Best and Worst, we reference the new book by economist, Alex Edmans, MAY CONTAIN LIES, found anywhere books are sold.